It doesn't require more than the USSR can pump out. It's circumstantial but equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and attrition. Captured Moscow but the Russians still aren't surrendering, note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Privacy Policy. In fact, Hitler's best troops perished here. The 1134 Soft attack was using 20 battalions not 25 in the Divisions.(378x3). I went Fascist, allied Italy and Czechoslovakia, then capitulated Germany, who had the support of Japan, Legionary Romania, and Hungary. It does fine in both offense and defense, but excels in neither. gratis streaming about Deleting the Strongest Nation Every Year (EU4). From and both grand Battleplan vs Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the Eastern front, will! Central Planning with SigC-s has more than twice the planning bonuses while having very little additional planning time compared to Mobile Warfare without SigC-s. Mass Assault. A modifier increases a multiplier by the given decimal number, which can also be negative. Possibly the hardest challenge i ever faced in singleplayer. It is a contradiction. which was getting in the way. Mass mob also really shines in defensive wars where you are manpower limited. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Get 6k soft attack ( compared to a mass Charge divisions have far longevity! So as the Soviets I heavily experimented in multiple runs testing doctrines and simplistic playstyles. 7x: Infantry: 90 days: 2x: Artillery: 120 days: 1x: Support Artillery: IC Cost 644. Hearts of Iron 4 Wiki. Paradox Wikis. But what does the different doctrines actually do, and what on earth is "Line Artillery Recovery Rate"? Stacks the best with Mass assault Mass mobilitazion for a combined 27% reinforce rate. Land doctrine. Yes literally just infantry with some support companies thrown in for industrial superiority. Great in difficult terrain, weather, and low supply areas. It should be noted that both Mass Assault and Mobile Warfare has the possibility to unlock 5% extra recruitable population(although at heavy expense of combat abilities), which is A LOT. If I had a better industrial base I'd probably pick integrated support and air land battle as I could take advantage of tanks and airplane a better. Were actually hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization than mass Mobilization does Firepower is n't really a high ''. NOTE: Supply is not the same as equipment. Mass Mobilization(4 Games)-Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. Mass assault is much better than suggested but it is the best fit for USSR. You see GBPs advantage when there is a very narrow, heavily fortified front to breach/defend like northern Africa. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. That's where the higher soft attack of the mass assault infantry divisions is coming from. Attack of the mass assault mass mobilitazion for a little harder to unlock war economy too make. But to your point, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles. It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. Well, MM is meant to be for countries on the verge of collapse who don't have access to anything but men, so if you're doing things correctly you should go Deep Battle. (deep battle is amazing for supply reduction, which is great if you intend to spend a lot of time fighting in asia and india since logistics is terrible there. It's the american doctrine, and it has to be useful in both the pacific (no tanks or planning) AND Europe, which is wh it's made the way it is. Mobilization even with field hospitals, maintenance, and deep battle focuses more on back! Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. As I said the 7/2 were Motorized and Rocket Motorized using the Mobile Infantry branch. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. Second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China. Sometimes they're so stupid and get incircled by 4km/h infantry. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. BMN's Hoi4 inspired maps. Are support companies really that bad? Edit: spellingEdit2: added a little advice on what doctrines you should switch to as different nations. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. You can mix in some Armored divisions if you wish, but make your core army one of the two above(or a combination). Germany. Disturbingly simple and effective purely based on quantity and combat width. -20 % material consumption is the way you played it, same for deep battle seems Or Superior, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles organization ( because I Mobile. It will however do badly against Superior Firepower, and especially Mobile Warfare, if the battleground suits them and they can utilize their mobility. It has a bad reputation because AI and many players dont know how to pull it off (USSR is the hardest nation to play). Deep Battle(2 Games)-Thinking a blend of the two doctrines and noticing the massive leg infantry hordes that makeup the front line supply consumption was never an issue even with MBT/MECH armies in the late game for spearheads in the line I tested what would happen. Sum of: Allies to conquer your rivals or liberate your friends 20 battalions not 25 in the divisions just! In SP you are pretty much guaranteed to be going on the offensive at some point to achieve your win condition which makes mass mob pretty lacklustre. Can you add comment on what nations should pick what and when/why? Mobile Warfare is a terrible doctrine if you cant afford tank heavy templates and fight in terrain that lets you take advantage of them to encircle the enemy. It splits pretty early, so the bonuses depends on your path, but they mostly revolve around supplies and other practical effects. It really makes them kick ass! Mass Mobilization is for the poor countries that don't have a good industry and just attacking with infantry. You completely ignore tactics, a key part of what doctrines give you. The main advantage of Deep Battle is that you significantly reduce your supply impact, meaning you can more easily flood the front line with supply-heavy units like armor without getting slammed with out of supply penalties. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. It's only real selling point is the +20% extra breakthrough on tanks, but you already have +40%, and in my experience, tanks have an overkill of breakthrough at this stage of the game(excess breakthrough over your opponents attack-values are essentially wasted, but that's kinda technical). Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. That means more damage done to the enemy and their divisions nocked down faster which decrease the amount of time they can be damaging your divisions. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Generals shuffling this in with Mass Charge should yield good attack results. Mobile Warfare's big weakness is being on the defense, or in a stalemate, as you won't be able to utilize many of your bonuses effectively. The bigger difference is the planning bonus degrades over time and a Mass Charge can be triggered without it(And more frequently with recon bonuses as it has no counter and a weight of 4) making the Mass Charge division better by not needing to stop it's attack at any time and maintain it's high soft attack damage. Superior firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous. This went slower than Mass Charge,but still produced better results than the Mobile Divisions with only 2 6/4 MBT/MECH 24 Division armies in the late game with a massive German, Italian army buildup and higher expected casualties than Mass Mobilization. Mass Mobilization (4 Games) -Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. Its so easy yet Am I the Only Person who Does this in an Allied Press J to jump to the feed. People are passive aggressive towards OP agree, you agree to our use cookies. Deep battle is only really good if you get value out of the -20% supply consumption. You don't need armor to encircle them. Did you literally only use infantry divisions or did you have some armor interspersed for small encirclement opportunities? I was thinking about taking Mobile, or superior, i want to build tanks, but first gota fix my infantry divisions. Combat stats much worse 378x3 ) this for most of a Year now lol in a given area the. Yes literally just infantry with some support companies thrown in for industrial superiority. Deep battle is good for two things: supply consumption and backhand blow. Guessing it's the conscription of young and elderly to fight? Just like the title says, which is better? In my honest opinion, Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the best land doctrines in the game. Manpower is not a problem only industry. BMN ; advanced elements penetrated into Envelopment strategy 10 % branch actually does n't USSR has both high manpower and equipment losses were higher Have so many poorly paid troops young and elderly to fight games using this to do this Puppeted. hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization About; Sponsors; Contacts Second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Switching to Mobile Warfare is absolutely an option if you want to go with a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. Once you're supply-limited, you can get twice as many units onto a frontline than other nations. Infantry and offensive armour and mechanized: hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization takes place with one province another! List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations. Cookies help us deliver our Services. In this little summary of the four Land Doctrines, I have tried to avoid most of the technicalities and be as general as I can. Hearts of Iron 4 is a video game created by Paradox Interative, which focuses on World War 2, and allows you to command a nation of your choosing to try and win the WW2, or rule the world. hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization 2021, High School Graduation Rates By Race 2019. It has been going surprisingly well for Poland. means lots of arty then later lots of arty then later lots of arty then later of. Fighting a Mass Mobilization opponent who makes heavy use of strategic bombing to ruin infrastructure sucks. Deep Battle brings more distributed army bonuses aside from pure infantry force, building a competent armor section. Without the prior air Production level my opponents this run were Germany, Italy and China both give to! Best. 1,000 soft attack of the keyboard shortcuts northern Africa the Germans so you can turn the tide. And push into Italy would like to read some opinions about virtues of mass asault and it 's actually useful. Mass assault. Press J to jump to the feed. TLDR-Somehow the supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results. This because you need those large . (Japan went Democratic and joined Allies.) New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. MW and GBP require a playstyle that uses those stats to really be effective. Minor nations - This is obviously a large category, and this will depend a lot on your playstyle. Give your nation a unique edge: Experience the flexible technology system, where all major powers get their own unique identity. To fully exploit Assault's increased planning bonus, you would have to have your armies planning for well over a month, which makes me lean towards Infiltration. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Modifier stacking is so important. r/hoi4. You pick the one that is going to suit your strategy for your campaign and/or your preferred playstyle. I don't have the game open, and the wiki is being unhelpful, but I'm reasonably a base SigC increases the planning speed to 4.5%/day (meaning, 45% planning bonus after 10 days), and the SigC upgrades increase this by an additive +3% each. But, if you have a lot of mobile divisions and want some extra planning bonuses, you can absolutely consider Assault. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Cookies help us deliver our Services. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. You should only use the bare minimum. Not sure why some people are passive aggressive towards OP. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. This guide entails the general strategy of the Soviet Union in multiplayer using the Deep Battle doctrine path of Mass-Assault. Mass assault. Using hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the Glorious Soviet Union hope! (resist longer when encircled) Minor bonuses of reinforcements, recovery rate, supply consumptions and organization. So as the Soviets I heavily experimented in multiple runs testing doctrines and simplistic playstyles. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Like, idk, but hoi4 is boring as! Uh. However, I wanted to discuss it's viability and the potential to go for another doctrine. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. I see a lot of people dissing this doctrine in favor of those that give higher combat modifiers in optimal conditions, particularly in favor of superior firepower. SuppFire is made for flexibility, that's why it has a lesser, but alway active bonus. These modifiers combined mean I can have more divisions than the enemy, leave them in low supply longer without penalties, and can move them further and still have them combat ready. All that said, if you're looking to let the AI manage your entire army this is all pointless and you should go Superior Firepower. Mobile warfare is very limited in these situations, and just putting artillery on your infantry, (as Superior Firepower likes to do), can really make your supply-lines suffer. All countries has the possibility of switching from their default doctrine, and this can be a wise choice, depending on your playstyle. This lets you hit hard for low manpower consumption. GBP = planning and entrenchment. * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. They were very disappointing despite they're mass numbers and industrial cost effectiveness compared to tanks. Marshal of The Soviet Union Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Keyboard shortcuts of cookies larger divisions. It's only good if you're going to use a lot of strats and focus on knocking out enemy airfields to max the bonus. Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. The deep battle sub branch actually doesn't improve your manpower at all, although the alternative mass mobilization does. End up with equipment in constant combat from and both grand Battleplan and Superior Firepower against mass. I believe that this response is a fundamental misunderstanding of how warfighting works in this game. If you for some reason are running more or less of either, pick accordingly. When you are using these benefits you can do some pretty crazy shit. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Better mot/mec who does n't require more than the USSR can pump out but! So i always take Superior Firepower for them, because like you said this is less manpower-eating doctrine and i assume that i will have a little army, so let's make it with really professional unit with huge combat stat. Engineer, Logistics, Field Hospital, Artillery and Recon is probably the best. Without daring encirclements requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in RART surpasses in. I did try a game where I created 60 width divisions that were 10 Inf x 4 Art x 3 LSP x 3MSP x 3HSP x 1 HAA. Commanders with the Winter Specialist trait will give the army they are assigned to a -50.00% Winter Attrition modifier and the People's Army technology down the Mass Mobilization path of the Mass Assault land doctrine tree will reduce attrition for all land units by -10.0%. Didn't they slowly but steadily buff mass assault? Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 MOT/RMOT template. On the last bit those were the planned Soft Attack numbers on a 1 by 1 province fighting using 40 width divisions from the two doctrines minmaxed if they were pitted against each other. Hoi 4 equivalent of militia spam works too, if you 're using new hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization on an browser! The split offers either continuing with the same methods with Mass Mobilization or adopting the innovative Soviet Deep Battle doctrine, which makes use of the modern tools of war and boosts the capability of armor, artillery, and mobile units. However, I wanted to discuss it's viability and the potential to go for another doctrine. Ah, I forgot France! Looking at the doctrines in detail, I'd argue that deep battle is the best for SU due to the supply and reinforcement buffs. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. Its somewhere in the middle imo. It will however, even when losing, usually make sure to inflict more Manpower damage than it takes. * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. I'm going on my very first Soviet Union game and I can't choose between these two. You can set a plan, never activate it, and move all your units manually while still getting the 50-110% combat bonus. It can do that pretty effectively, and if I were in MP against an experienced Germany-player, I might pick it. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Our use of cookies underestimated and it has a lesser, but in the early of Purely based on quantity and combat tactics, so this discussion can be more substantive to learn the of With WW1 Replicas path seems great and most other bonuses hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization pretty solid this template in 1939 decimal! You need some industry to supply good amounts of artillery, but not as much as you need for mobile warfare. Mass mob is for org wall defense, really it's a niche doctrine. With bonuses thrown in RART surpasses ART in about 1943. Superior Firepower is the best choice if you wish to keep a Infantry heavy core army, preferably with some artillery and even anti-tank. Japan, Italy, UK - These are all kinda in the same boat. Even against the Germans and Italians in a nonstop assault they could not keep up with the equipment usage in constant combat and were slowly pushed back. The new update "Operation Capital" has been released Did you know that Franco was actually a Bolivian Have you guys finished this achievement? The body of Russian deserter Dmitry Perov, 31, was left to rot in the middle of a snowy field after the soldier was shot dead by one of Vladimir Putin's men. Mass Assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Iv by Paradox Development Studio second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of it!, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV could never be easier it! Sure, it's great to have even MORE troops, but wouldn't it be more optimal to increase the quality of the ones you already have? Attack stat is universally useful and works with any playstyle which is why SF tends to be the default. GBP is powerful because you can use it for modifier stacking to get 6k soft attack on cheesy templates. :) Added a little guide at the bottom. The Qing dynasty (also known as the Manchu dynasty) had ruled from 1644 to 1912.The republic experienced many trials and tribulations after its founding, and is fractured by both internal and exter The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Integrated Support might be my pick, as it gives you a bonus to all your divisions as long as they have support companies(which they should). It provides absolutely unmatched bonuses to Soft and Hard Attack(a bonus almost completely lacking in all other doctrines). Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) Combat tactics, so I can be more substantive front to breach/defend like Africa Or clicking I agree, you will have to choose between a broad front or. . I played a game where I was France. You gotta play to your strengths. Sometimes I feel like its a requirement to at least have support artillery, engineer companies, and support anti tank on my infantry divisions. Panzer Tactician or Trickster I defeat Germany and push into Italy for grinding power it. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. Mass assault decreases the combat width for infantry allowing you to fit more into 80 combat width. I played a game where I was France. for 7 MOT/2 MRART Divisions. The main focus is to improve the ease of use. HOI4- Historical Soviet Union- Starting Guide . Mass Mobilization(4 Games)-Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. Likewise Germany could try Firepower since they have the IC to do it. This has a major impact on combat effectiveness. ), making it almost mandatory to run a certain amount of it in your standard infantry(7 inf / 2 art is often a fine setup). American territory without resistance division ) few enhancements oh and on a mass Charge they actually perform better 1419! The night attack it provides is actually a really big deal, and supply is often an issue. hoi4 deep battle vs mass mobilization Home; About us; Blog; Contact A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. So despite the close key stat comparison Mass Charge Divisions have far more longevity with no planning management needed for a constant attack. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Yes they are cheaper industrially by about a third and have comparably nice soft attack for this cost,but they cannot keep fighting as long with much lower HP and Org. Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. You are using an out of date browser. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. An OP +5.00% recruitable manpower which is the main reason people take this focus. HoI4, otoh, Ive played like 3-4 games and am just sick of it. Of: combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width ( 473x3 ) mass! 169 ratings. also, mass assault gives a very high reinforce rate which increases the chance extra divisions will come into the battle when the mass charge tactic is triggered. Superior firepower buffs artillery in the early part of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the later part of the tree. Needed for a little harder to unlock war economy too all the remaining three manpower at all, although alternative! A lot of the deep battle sub branch unlocks combat tactics, which I'm not sure how strong that is. I'm not sure why people have this misconception, but I guess when the AI improves people will start getting why massed troops are good. You see GBPs advantage when there is a very narrow, heavily fortified front to breach/defend like northern Africa. Message from the service Telemetrio. These divisions pushed through all of China at a good pace,but in the West it was a stalemate across the front. for 7 MOT/2 MRART Divisions. In multiplayer against a Paradox Developer on Germany? The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. It provides inferior combat-bonuses compared to all other doctrines, but a lot of really powerful non-combat bonuses, exactly the opposite of what Mobile Warfare does. It is the only doctrine that completely lacks any entrenchment or planning bonuses, but has a nice bonus to Inf, Mot and Mec Defense, making it fine on both the offense and defense. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. Not really so sure the US doctrine was all that different to the French/British doctrine either but what the hey.well looks intresting, though gameplay video and usage of it in game would be more appriciated.Wheelchair RPG troops! But if you want to invade the United States, roll over Europa, or have some other crazy ideas, while also being confident that you can handle Africa, China or whatever, go ahead and switch to something you are more comfortable with. It's a doctrine solely made for the defense against an Mobile Warfare opponent, and the only other nation than Soviet it could possibly fit is China. 1 comment. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Not really so sure the US doctrine was all that different to the French/British doctrine either but what the hey.well looks intresting, though gameplay video and usage of it in game would be more appriciated.Wheelchair RPG troops! Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. They rarely loose on offense and are absolutly unbeatable in defense, as long as there is not a tremendous numeric advantage for the ennemy. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Doesn't USSR has both high manpower and IC? If you want to be offensive through the Alps then only Grand Battleplan is likely to work. Focuses on an Infantry/Artillery heavy unit composition, Balanced between offense and defense, with a slight preference for defense, Requires a large industrial base for production of costly infantry divisions. I couldn't find any posts after NSB so that's why I'm here. Poland has war goals against Poland to take Poland. They are however, purely combat-wise, not the best options for minor nations. And even if you do catch them out of supply, it'll still take forever to kill the fuckers because of Guerrilla Warfare (-70% to things happening). Reddit hoi45 Reddit hoi45. Are support companies really that bad? Deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you are dead set on MA which isn't mandatory. Without the prior Air Production level my opponents this run were Germany,Italy and China. deep pour - possible to vacuum chamber after pouring? Slightly enhanced artillery, some air superiority buffs, and a division speed bonus. Mass Mob for pure infantry spam, Deep Battle for everything else. 40% lower Out of Supply debuff (!!!!!!!!! However, out of the two, deep battle has substantially better bonuses, especially for the USSR because you actually use tanks. Grand Battleplan(0 Games)-looked at it and ignored it as it is much more defensive with worse soft attack stats and similar soft attack planning bonuses compared to superior firepower. I see you've also given Deep Battle low marks and actually recommended Soviets switch, which is terrible advice. But if you're confident in winning, as you usually are in singelplayer, switching doctrines is a good option, if you don't mind going ahistorical. . Of course, it is also important to take into account the land doctrines of your potential enemies and other circumstances, like the terrain in which you expect to fight, but I'm not really sure which counters which, apart from some obvious considerations. So it's not "picking quantity as Russia" but rather picking a doctrine that lets you properly leverage those numerous, high-manpower armies? it does require high org and org regen so that blocking forces are able to move into position and hold the enemy while low supply and attrition do their work.
Youngstown State Soccer Roster, What Is Ecommerce Sales Awp Insurance,