The slope of the taper of this rod is .014/5" or a B-8.4 (taking the average drop from 80" thru 0"). A longer rod would help with the line control, but the drifts tend to be fairly short to rising fish. All tapers are based solely or partially on the combinations of these basic deviations from the SLT. ferrules, such as Mr. Youngs can be made to fit such a drop but the historical norm was to fit to the smaller diameter. Following tests I no longer cook UHU. For my money I can think of a couple of rods I like better than anything Dickerson made. I like 8013's. But nobody has a right to ask me to share it. The other issue is mandrels and they just don't come in 1/128 sizes. This taper, starting with a .068 tip dimension, makes a great middle distance 8' WF6 or 7-1/2' 5wt. Although it takes only 3 sizes to make a given size ferrule, he may have made a specialty set. .278@25 I repaired the rod with by putting on a custom ferrule. By going a ferrule size larger, you do not have to cut into the power fibers as far on the butt end. Cynically, but I may not have entirely given up, yet. Post All 5wt with identical terminal tip and butt dimensions. .248@15 More info. It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. Consider this, the aspect of looking at tapers as deviations from straight lines is most valid when you are designing from numbers and not from stress or deflection. The most interesting rods have a distinctive type of action, and a particular form and design, which is distinctive, and which seems to express a particular maker's vision. For that matter, how big does the swell actually have to be to stop the action of the rod? (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. All sections are full length and straight. 85 0.296 138357 Just looking for a taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely. This is one of those bio-feedback things you must be self taught IMHO. by Morten 05/26/17 03:35, Post Maybe it is the version of the taper they are making, there are several out there. by alpom 05/08/09 03:35, Post I noticed a couple of versions of this taper where the swell was moved out in front of the grip but all of the original 1970 versions show it differently. Is there anyone who could help us finding the right data conserning the taper. It sounds very interesting. 20 .245 .130 Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. For example a 13 was really a 13.5? There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) The 1952 Dickerson is similar to the GW except it's a 5/6 wt. (Tim Pembroke). All of which indicates to me that there is not one 'correct' straight line taper. (Robin Haywood). If you move it up to the mid section you might add a hinge that gets involved in the normal cast.. which is usually to be avoided. It didn't make since to me but went ahead and planed the butt section the way it was listed. So far all those posted were missing the 1st station on the butt section. 80 0.3 0.138 60 0.231 142296 I cannot come up with an application for a 7'6''#5, with its inherent disadvantages for roll casting. You are correct, this is just a way of evaluating the effects of adding or subtracting material from different areas along a rods length. 0.168 (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank $85.00 13' 7/8wt. 0.360 (Jay Hake). 0.232 Even if EC did "compound" his B-9 taper just in front of the ferrule for a specific reason, it wouldn't negate the fact that this is AT HEART A STRAIGHT TAPER. Somehow the "D" was either left off by me in the original posting or was lost in translation to David's site. At the Grayling gathering, Bill Harms gave a presentation of Marinaro's approach to rod design. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. Why do you think a7'6" rod is short for a #5 ? The long column to the right of that is what we think the raw cane would have measured, subtracting for varnish, and interpolating between our measurements so as to put everything back on 5-inch stations. I own a Thramer 6611 and 7012 HB tapers, both with Thramer cosmetics and they are both awesome rods. Line Size Tip Size Easy casting and very versatile. .266@20 Hi, I am considdering letting my local builder make me copy of a Dickerson rod, after all the positive notes on his rods I have read here. And you are of course correct in pointing out that stress numbers means nothing without the particulars of the line weight and length. Its the old problem, everyone wants to tell us what they think the answer is, but they never want to tell us why in terms unequivocal and universal! I don't particularly like the idea of an "exact" clone, it takes away from the makers personal touch IMHO and never will be the real deal. 55 0.2275 25 0.142 158834 15 .128 .274 So I thought I would answer that question and build one. by wefishcane 05/08/09 02:55, Post Inquiring solvent-afflicted minds want to know. It is, literally, the shape of the rod itself and determines how . (Steve Weiss), That's the rub isn't it? Whether Dickerson tweaked them to suit individuals or not I can't say. So the question - I have been trying to define the specific characteristic that each basic deviation from the SLT imparts to the action of the rod. 7 wt 0.0790 Spurred into rodmakingby losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of the masters of the craft. If you add bamboo the the tip of the rod, you have changed its mass (MOI/MOE) relative to what it was. I will assume that you have calculated those several effects correctly, although I see no details. 0 0.072 - BTW, Paul, different strokes for different folks. Here are the tapers of the Dickerson 8014GS from the rod Jeff Fultz mic'ed and from Banjo's rod, since I had several requests both on and off list, I'll post here so anyone who wants them can save them. the mid is 42' and the closest measurements are 40" and 45" SO 2/5THS THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE BETWEEN 40 AND 42 AND 3/5THS THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE BETWEEN 42 AND 45th. I would highly recommend the 8013 for your first Dickerson rod. DICKERSON 801610 - 8' 3/2 - 5wt- honey colored - medium powerful action trout fishing rod this rod is my favorite 8 foot Dickerson - originals are very rare - incredible power in a true 5w$ 2150us (all 3pc 2tip rods)DICKERSON 7613 - 7'6"- one of my all time favorite 5wts, copied in Dickerson's style can be custom made with tips of four different actions below: DICKERSON 7613 LS - the lightest of this series - for closer casting to 40 feetDICKERSON 7613 L - very nice all-round trout taper, full, medium fast actionDICKERSON 7613 M - quick, full dry fly rod - nice to have when the hatch startsDICKERSON 7613 H the 6wt, "big gun" of this series, good for big flies, streamers, $ 1750us w/one tip $ 1950us w/two tips $ 2150us w/three (or all 3pc 2tip rods) $ 2350us w/full set of four tips in all actions. For those of you that have built this rod, does it flex into the beginning of the handle? This is the equivalent of a Powell B-8.70, a bit slower than the Powell B-9. An 861711 would be an 8 1/2' three piece, with the butt-to-mid ferrule being a size 17, and the mid-to-tip ferrule being a size 11. 0.178 Just like the makers of Ping golf clubs, who ban their retailers from selling on the internet, I do not see how it is possible to make a rod for someone without the presence of that person for a considerable time on a casting court. This is the second invitation to fish Michigan, and I thank you sincerely for it. Part of the midwest cadre of noted builders, he built rods from the 1930's onward and was especially known for his fast two-piece rods. 0.220 Jim P. you have some great choices there. Should be a very nice rod, good Taper. CFRF Tapers Tapers from Classic Fly Rod Forum The links below are to "classic" tapers posted to the Classic Fly Rod Forum (http://classicflyrodforum.com) in the Taper Exchange subforum. 0.078 My 2 cents. 4.6 ounces. 5 0.088 112541 The Lovely Reed by Jack Howell has numbers for the 1949 and 1951 versions. Click Here for Rod Raffle, Great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing. A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. Bill Wara. Variations below this point have more to do with the character of the rod than the line weight. They would be; The Straight line taper is the most basic and then the six major deviations of the SLT. I fish mostly Michigan streams where you are wading the stream casting to the edges, and casting to rising fish wherever you are lucky enough to find them. If you read this Bob, I would be interested to know how you choose your tip dimension and rise? (Lowell Davis), The 8013 is definitely NOT a longer version of the 7613. The 7613 Golden Witch version, a 6 wt, has a somewhat softer tip than the 8013 getting stronger toward the lower tip. Most of the ones I have made and sold are the PHY Perfectionist taper. "And look at the difference in the prices they go for!" Part of the midwestcadre of noted builders, he built rods from the 1930's onward and was especially known for his fast two-piece rods. For each size ferrule there is a specific range of dimensions that will fit inside each size. The only question that puzzles me is why on earth he thought this might be important for fishing the Risle, which is hardly the Tay. (Jay Hake), Apparently Dickerson didn't think so. In fact, I used this taper, hollow built, when taking the FFF casting certification test. CSE makes and sells this kind of "step-down" ferrule, from tubing, as Dickerson did. 5 0.0825 The guy turns out to be a top casting instructor. I like to look at the taper itself and how it compares to a straight line taper, the stress curve, the tip deflection under loading, the shape the rod assumes under maximum loading, the rod weight and the center of gravity. You may think you are being rude about "Classic" production methods, but they're probably better than mine. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. Welcome to the Taper Archives; The data on this page reflects the work of generations of dedicated rodmakers. (Harry Boyd). Conversely, the .202 is at the low end of fit for a 14/64. 0.102 To accomplish this I have added bamboo to compensate for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides.. This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. (Reed Guice). Rod Selection - Dickerson Tapers, < Home < Tips Area < Rod Selection < Dickerson Tapers, Can someone help me find the taper for the Dickerson 7613. Casting 20 feet of 5wt line the stress curve is flat. This gives a quick, accurate impression as to what type of taper the rod is made from (straight, parabolic, compound, etc.) All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. These were Bailey Woods stepdown ferrules. Can you direct me to where I can find more information on this? Perhaps you can see why I think that a 1500 cane rod may be a bargain! (Will Price). 4070 Main Street, Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. What species do fish for with your bamboo rods? We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. This board is for discussing the collecting of bamboo fly rods, both classic and modern. They would be, Heavy butt section, Light butt section, heavy tip, light tip, Parabolic (heavy in the middle) and the hinge (light in the middle). Powered by Shopify. (Pete Van Schaack), Has anyone made the Dickerson 8015 guide special at some time? Ralph Tuttle did the actual spreadsheet work. It's been my experience that a straight taper can be a very nice rod when designed correctly; for example a 4wt with a tip of 0.068 and a station rise of 0.013. Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. Start out by choosing your fly rod, and follow it up with a visit to our collection of fly reels. Point Dimension One of our most recognizable rod models with a deep flamed color and crisper action. The 6611 has a swelled butt unlike many versions I've seen and is an especially sweet rod. 6-strip Tonkin bamboo ), Then as it was, then again it will be. I would specifically urge all to look at the graphs. Dickerson 8014 Fred Bears Rod, 2606 -1. John Pickard only way to go. (John Silveira). I have a tough time roll casting over about 65' with any rod, no matter how long or limber. Casting range allows for some delicacy up close and personal, to the times that you want to reach out and touch someone a bit further away. I don't find the 7'6" length to be too short. Still looking for a guide to hire for a striper trip to the Bay. Step Down debate again. If you were to design rods using a visual representation of it's deflection then deviation from a straight line doesn't matter. The thickness of varnish of course was just our guess. I have looked on the Rodmakers site under tapers and it is not listed. They were severely inhibited by several difficulties. That said, even this quite powerful taper isn't sufficient to handle large deer hair bass bugs or heavily weighted 2/0 streamers. Its a very useful exercise. I have fished some pretty big water with this rod and it has served me very well. If you want to adjust for a different varnish assumption, or if you want to interpolate differently, then our actual measurements are there for you (or anyone, of course) to do so. The varnish is in good condition. As most of you already know Paul Young was notorious for having quite a few different tapers for the same model over the course of his career. Please allow up to 120 days for completion of your new rod. The last 7613 is a version by Todd Talsma, it is the strongest one a 6/7 wt similar to the 1952 model. the grip so I did some interpolation. (Rich Jezioro). Dave Norling, Rush River Rods, makes a stepdown 13/12 ferrule, the only size stepdown that he offers , that works very well for this taper. A lot goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod and here you can learn more about our approach. I was contemplating a rod with a 3.5 ft tip section and interchangeable butt sections of maybe 2, 3 and 4 ft lengths. So the data exists both ways in the spreadsheet. I've made at least a dozen Perfectionists (most with a swelled butt so they aren't exactly the same) and all their owners love them. There are some differences between their tapers and line sizes, however they are all somewhat medium fast. (Will McMurrey). 0.102 But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. (Ted Godfrey), I can say the one I don't like is the one in Ray Goulds fine book, 'Cane Rods, Tips and Tapers', page 85. This is a set of 13-14/64 step down ferrules. But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. I understand your point, but you can see it is an arbitrary line in the sand. I would say it's a strong 7 wt, but it should work well with a 8 WF. You don't find a need for a 7'6" 5wt on your streams. It seems several people have made rods for a given ferrule size (Dickerson #) with a size larger Super-Z. To my knowledge there are at least 3 versions of the 7613 out there. 'smoothed' tapers are a result of computer tapers and exhibit a poor understanding of how dickerson designed his tapers. It's a 7 wt too but being a little shorter is easier on the arm and shoulder due to the shorter lever arm length. That has compensation for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides. by Mike McGuire 06/16/16 23:29, Post And this set of conditions is very narrow. Because Ritz was not an engineer, any more than Creusevaut or Plantet were (although the latter may have been a competent mechanic) it was thought that the extension pole should be just that, a large diameter pole of slow taper. 48 .224 .375, I don't know how Banjo arrived at the measurements under the grip and reel seat. Just basic principles that have been around for years. I think of it as an 8013G. This should cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins rave about this wimpy stick? This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. (Larry Puckett), If you look at page 104 of the Dickerson book you will see his die set. The same can be said for the EC Powell taper in Hexrod (the 7'6" 2pc 6wt in the archives) which IS A B-9 TAPER; just look at the average slope from stations from the 80" mark thru 0". If you like I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean. The point is this: a straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as you say, UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. I've also made an 8-1/2' with tip dimension of .072, which made a really nice 6/7 weight. He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. Cross Rods. The 8014 taper was devised later in Lyle's life and reflects both this ma So this spring I made the Dickerson 8014 Guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill. - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone. 6 wt 0.0752 by LeeO 05/26/17 07:47, Post Perhaps I did not state myself clearly. All of the Dickerson tapers I have made using Super Zs have been great. Forgot to mention before, Rich Jezioro is taking a set of 11-12/64 ferrules to Grayling for the silent auction for me, so if anybody's interested you can see them there if you're attending. Chris likes it for Smallmouth on the Shenandoah. The American Museum of Fly Fishing is the steward of the history, traditions, and practices of the sport of fly fishing and promotes the conservation of its waters. Howell says "they are just different" in his book, but I am looking for something bit more specific. "God made dogs to steal our hearts and they do.". 20 0.126 You can draw a straight line between the tip and the butt of any taper. (Lew) Parks. That is all I did! Gary - The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. If you want a starting point then make the rate of taper 20 thousandths per inch and hollow build to 50 or 60% of original wall thickness. (Gary Nicholson), I think most rodmakers wouldn't build a rod to sell that they didn't like, but would make one for a customer that they wouldn't use themselves, I know I have. I could probably improve just by buying a new cheap file.. You can vary the slope to get the "speed" you want (Garrison's are .013/5"; a B-9 .015/5"; and I've built them as fast as .018/5"). Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. I've cast the original and it is one strong casting rod and deserving of the Guide Special nomenclature. Is that the 1949 or the 1951 version? Some good stuff here. They will not be using straight tapers, I'm afraid. He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. 0.369 (Al Baldauski). I haven't tried a WF6 but suspect it'd be about perfect. (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. Measure over original varnish. (Harry Boyd). Ya'll, I have built this & I use a 6 weight forward on it. As you got more line out the rod would flex deeper into the shaft. Varnish of 0.004 subtracted. The taper on David Ray's site is an 861711D. 0.214 that'd be super! On the other hand, Dickerson was designing rods (most likely) for Michigan waters. Garrison would have like straight line stress/strain results for the same reason Richard Walker did. Dickerson Rods. I believe he told me he placed his roll casting hinge 10"-15" above the handle, depending on rod length. But you also have the opportunity to add or remove material any ware alone the length of that rod and doing so will have an taper specific effect on the casting/fishing characteristics of the rod. (Larry Swearingen). I would also like to know why a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics. Fast Dickerson 7613 - 7'6" 2pc I only use short rods on overgrown streams. The 3 flats got averaged and put into a column in the center of the page. (Robin Haywood), This would be very easy, but would impact on other desirable qualities. Station Diameter I personally have never been able to use them to describe the characteristics of a taper. Help from forum members would be welcomed. Yes, there are specific applications for a 7'6" 5wt here in Michigan. (Will McMurrey), A picture says a thousand words. 0.266 If it's starting at the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up. This is because the laws of physics don't tend to change much. 0.229 John P. has the Original Dickerson 7612 taper, a very rare rod but John understandably will not share the taper. (Mark Wendt), Dickerson (like all of us who draw their own tubing) used 1/64 wall tubing to construct his ferrules. 90 0.296 157251. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. F E Thomas. You can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease. But if you really like Dickerson tapers (i sure do) then getting a good maker to whip up his version of that taper while using his personal cosmetics would be my first choice. He has two Dickerson 7613 tapers, from 1952 and 1970, that show dimensions for a butt ferrule that would be 14/64 and a tip ferrule of 13/64. (Tim Pembroke), I wasn't aware of that but now that I've been told it does make perfect sense. (Jerry Foster), I agree. 0.111 Nowadays, some guys machine ferrules out of bar stock, and they have a reasonable way to make the openings different sizes on the top and bottom. 0.369 (David Atchison), Didn't Dickerson make his own ferrules and weren't they slightly oversized? 8 wt 0.0830 According to Hoagy Carmichael Jr. who filmed a documentary for Boston Public TV, the Payne Rod Co. made approximately 12,000 rods during it's existence. The point here being, if we can define areas along the straight line or linier taper. I like Dickerson's fast action, but I have not had a chance to try every rod Jim Payne made. Can someone explain what this means and what number should I use. I hope this is for step down ferrule. These get assimilated quite directly into stress curve approach. Since it was a know Dickerson Taper and not a myth I set out to recreate how I think Lyle would of done it and it came out sweet. Are you so precise in your planing that all your stations are bang on, with less than .001"? Contact us to learn more about how we can help! Examples would be different techniques or methods used by restorationists and makers. . I Have commented additionally, if trivially in a private post on the other points. The second you deviate from a straight line, no matter how you want to describe it, the fact that there was a straight line is irrelevant. well there is your answer. 2 wt 0.0585 My intention is not to criticize you, but to try to reveal the "big picture" when looking at tapers and stress curves. (Paul Blakley), I think a 7'6'' rod is short for any line weight. (Robin Haywood). One of our longstanding rod models with classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action. However many people may like them, does this mean they cannot be improved on? by avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post (Will McMurrey), Just very briefly, a Castle Connell taper is a good example, where you have a curious reverse taper in the upper part of the lower half of the rod. Actually I feel an increase of .030 would be sufficient. Or, if these are not good tapers for this, any suggestions as to which tapers would be? I made the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book. Tel: 802-362-3300, Summer 4 wt 0.0680 5 wt 0.0720 You can do all the compensation you like for varnish thickness, ring weight and ferrules but you will still not produce anything like as good as a properly calculated compound taper rod. The part of the ferrule that fits over the bamboo on the tip section (male ferrule) had the same exact inside diameter of .221" INITIALLY! (John Channer). The rod action will not resemble a straight line taper any longer. Let's be honest about this. All were very powerful eight weight rods with most of the action in the upper half. Bob through extensive research determined the tip dimensions for specific line weights and then calculated SLT for each. Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. 9 wt 0.0890. Tuesday - Sunday, 10am to 4pm, Winter
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